In-depth: How We Waded Into The Sexual Harassment Quagmire — And How to Wade Out: One Man’s View (Part 1 of 3 Parts)

old courtship

An in-depth analysis of what Male Matters USA considers the sexes’ most divisive and destructive behavioral difference

by Jerry A. Boggs

CAVEAT: The views and facts herein may be too shocking and off-putting to politicized, ideological feminists, especially those at #MeToo. I provide a possible reason for that in my FOREWORD to “A Comprehensive Look at Gender Equality: The Doctrinaire Institute for Women’s Policy Research.”  
Contains one depiction of nudity.
25,400 words in 3 parts, 2 hrs., more or less, depending on your reading speed 
17,270 clicks for years ending 2017 
(plus hundreds more at a previous defunct blog); 6,864 clicks in 2018; 2,120 in 2019; 507 as of April 29, 2020. 

Years ago, the media and virtually all other institutions ignored the “female” side to the gender story for fear of offending men. That was rightfully seen as sexism.

For the last three decades, the media and virtually all other institutions have ignored the “male” side to the gender story for fear of offending women. That is not yet seen by many as the sexism it is.


“I asked her out,” he said. “She refused. I kept asking. She kept refusing.”
“I’m your adviser,” she said. “It’s not appropriate.”

The “he”? Barack Obama.
The “she”? Michelle Robinson, his future wife. –

Had Obama been unattractive or financially unsuccessful, feminist Michelle might have filed a complaint in this textbook example of sexual harassment: a persistent, unwanted advance, a refusal to take a woman’s “No” seriously. (See also the 2016 movie “Southside With You,” the story of how Barack and Michelle met. At twelve minutes into the film, Michelle tells Barack, “But how many times do I have to tell you, we’re not going out together.”)

Today, had they not married, she might be a #MeToo member telling a 20-year-old tale of harassment by former-President Barack Obama.

A similar tale might have been told by the wife of Obama’s vice president Joe Biden, Jill Biden.

According to a 2012 Washington Post piece, this story about the former vice president and his wife took place:

“It was worth the trip to hear my wife say what she’s never said, that she’s always loved me.” He went on to ask, if that was the case, “why did it take five times?”

Biden has used the story of his five marriage proposals on the campaign trail as the example of his dogged persistence, and his wife confirmed it Thursday night. “Joe often tells people that I didn’t agree to marry him until the fifth time he asked me,” she said. “The truth is that I loved him from the start.”

She loved him even as she said “no” to his first four proposals. She taught Biden to persist: “I’m yours if you keep asking,” said her behavior in retrospect.

Today, had they not married, she, too, might be a #MeToo member telling a decades-old tale of harassment by former Vice-President Joe Biden.

But there are no #MeToo complaints against the men who married the women they “harassed.” How many marriages are born of the persistence which women have been advised is harassment?


“We need to understand the breadth of the problem if we are going to begin to address the problem and to change attitudes in a meaningful way.” –LA Times editorial, November 17, 2017

So what is the breadth of the problem?

According to such feminists as Catharine MacKinnon, and such media outlets as The New York Times, sexual harassment is epidemic; like the air, it’s everywhere. All men are made harassers in the waiting by the anti-female miasma of “toxic masculinity.”

After a bit of research, here is my answer to what is the breadth of the problem:
In a 2014 survey, about 2.4 million women said they were harassed at work.
To be sure, that’s a disturbing number – but much less so when you learn there are 66 million females aged 16 and older in the workforce, and 2.4 million women represent only 3.6 percent of them.

The 3.6 figure comes from the General Social Survey, one of the most trusted sources of social-science data. In 2014, it asked a random sample of Americans: “In the last 12 months, were you sexually harassed by anyone while you were on the job?”

Christina Hoff Sommers

Christina Sommers

“To that question,” Christina Sommers, author of The War Against Boys, wrote in the New York Daily News on November 26, 2017, “only 3.6% of women said yes. That is down from 6.1% in 2002. These results do not suggest an epidemic. Nor even a trendline moving in the wrong direction.”

Another question, perhaps even more important, is: How many men are harassers?

Between October 2017 and the end of January 2018, I read many accounts of multiples of women alleging harassment of some nature by the same man. More than 85 women registered complaints of sexual misconduct against movie mogul Harvey Weinstein. Ex-TV personality Matt Lauer, too, is an alleged multiple offender. The ratio of one man harassing several or many seems to hold true across a broad spectrum of industries. Could, then, the typical harasser be described as a serial harasser?

Maybe only high-profile harassers who target multiple women elicit the media’s attention. Maybe there are thousands of men who harass only “once or twice” because they were soundly scolded for their behavior by a woman and learned to cease and desist. But delving into once-or-twice harassers, I believe, draws us onto a slippery slope, especially considering the growing definitions of what offends and considering whom women are more likely or not to view as harassers (I get into this later).

So, discounting the once-or-twicers, “serial harassers” would mean that if only 3.6 percent of working women are harassed, maybe only 2 percent or less of working men are doing the harassing. (Bear in mind, too, that men outnumber women at work: in 2016, 69.2% of males worked, vs. 56.8% of females.)

It doesn’t sound to me as though there is a “toxic masculinity that makes all men harassers in the waiting.”

Let’s zoom in on who the harassed women are.

The group most likely to report being harassed is, I believe, attractive young women between ages 18 and 40. (Fewer young white women report harassment than 20 years ago, but they still report more than older women and black women, for whom claims have not changed. #MeToo, take note: In the 20 years, claims overall have dropped 40 percent! Sidebar comment: That decline, oddly enough, just happens to coincide with a rise in the use of online porn, which feminists in the Catharine MacKinnon vein want —  wrong-headedly, it turns out — banned “to protect women from sexual exploitation”! The rise in online porn use also coincides with the decline in rape.)

Young attractive women may represent no more than 20 percent of the entire female workforce (my wild guess), or about 13.2 million. But they may account for 80 percent, or almost 2 million, of the 2.4 million harassed. Two million of the possible 13.2 million young attractive women at work equates to 15%; 15% of young attractive women being harassed at work would appear to mean, for this group, yes, a problem. But 15% of the roughly 20% of working women who are attractive — a minority of a minority — does not constitute an epidemic of sexual harassment against women.

I believe this analysis helps us better understand the breadth of the sexual harassment problem.

What makes the harassment seem like an epidemic? I think mainly three factors: (1) The two million-plus harassed women with quick, easy access to such social networks as Twitter (the whisper network permits a new kind of mob agitation); (2) radical feminists and the mostly liberal news corps that have for decades ignored the male side and the deeper understanding of the male-female dynamic; (3) repetition, repetition, repetition.

Still, it goes without saying the more-than-two million women harassed each year deserve to be heard and understood.

Most of all, they deserve to be given an understanding of why they are victims of workplace sexual misconduct. That understanding provides the best path to a solution — the best path to harmony between the sexes.
To that end….



When a boy is around 10 or 11 years old, he may start becoming conscious of the media’s incessant portrayals of beautiful girls and women in magazines, newspapers, and movies. He can’t escape the bombardment.

To him, beautiful females, unlike handsome men to women, often seem to be held out as a prize. He may grow to feel inadequate because he can’t have one of these “genetic celebrities,” as they’re called by gender researcher/author Warren Farrell.

“Every day in about half the advertisements, a man sees the constant reminder of the woman he was not worthy of.” -Warren Farrell, who proposes a White House Council On Boys and Men and who wrote the stunning 2018 book “The Boy Crisis,” which I believe has the potential to transform society from one of alienation to one of peace and caring.

“We live in a society drenched with sexually objectifying images of women,” the National Center on Sexual Exploitation says. “…[W]e are bombarded with sexually objectifying images both in brick and mortar stores and in online advertisements virtually every day. These images are so ubiquitous, the average person feels powerless to change the status quo.”

(Wait, haven’t feminists told us for years that women are the invisible sex?)

If a boy is to have a girlfriend at all — even an unattractive one — he knows he will probably have to reach out to her first and risk rejection.

Many girls at this age also reach out. But they are often pulled back and restrained by parents and others who lecture, “Let the boy approach you.”

A girl may learn to think: “How do I get a guy to approach me?”
A boy may learn to think: “How do I keep a girl from rejecting me?”

Because of their different socially assigned role behavior, males and females very early on set out to develop two different psychologies when contemplating creating heterosexual relationships. Their different behavior can turn the sexes into two strangers destined to often alienate each other. Psychologists who explain the sexes’ different behavior from a neuroscience standpoint should, I believe, take this into consideration.

When grown women want to reach out first, they, too, are sometimes told, “Let him make the first move.” (People who say “Let so-and-so…” have the power.) In my office some years ago, I overheard a 40-ish woman tell a female co-worker friend she was going to ask out a guy in her department. The friend’s reaction was stern. “No. You wait until he asks you.” I thought: Talk about female conspiracies! The brazen woman who wanted to break the rule would, perhaps to stay in her friend’s good graces, have to resort to the traditional ways of attracting a man: wear her best makeup and clothes and make frequent friendly appearances near her “target.”

Warren farrell2


A boy learns something different, usually on an unconscious level: To prevent or diminish the pain of rejection, he turns females into “sex-objects who aren’t important enough to hurt him.” Yet seeing females as unimportant sex-objects still may not mask the fact that the sex-object is very powerful and can indeed hurt him. (See more work by gender expert Warren Farrell, author of many books on the sexes, including Women Can’t Hear What Men Don’t Say, Chapter 8 of which is online here as a quick sample of his insights into things gender.)

A boy’s focus on sex stems not just from an unconscious need to protect himself. It stems also from:

The biological sexual need that both sexes have (and which females have been taught to suppress, limit, or deny, the effect being a diminished supply that I believe tends to artificially heighten males’ desire for sex);

As mentioned, the media’s constant in-your-face portrayals of the prize: beautiful, sexy girls and women.

The fear of female rejection helps propel boys and men to the publications and outlets that feature beautiful female nudes. These further fuel the desire for the beautiful sex-object.

“In high school,” Farrell says, “a 15-year-old boy, the less mature sex, is expected to risk the rejection of the more mature sex. Having fewer social skills and being more likely to be a ‘failure to launch,’ he may feel overwhelmed, withdraw and fall addict to the world of internet porn.”

“The best-selling magazines to men are Playboy and Penthouse,” Farrell adds. “These represent men’s primary fantasy: access to as many beautiful women as desired without risk of rejection.”

The magazines tell men access to beautiful women is possible once you gain financial success or status. Even the most attractive man looking at these magazines feels he needs success or status just to win over his female counterpart in looks. (The woman, usually, merely needs to be attractive; granted, the majority of women aren’t attractive, nor is the majority of men. Often she has to do nothing; she’ll be sought out and pursued. She may experience a surplus of attention that feels like harassment.)

“So while in men’s magazines success is a power tool to get sex and love, and therefore the look of success is crucial, in women’s magazines love and sex are power tools to get success—and therefore both the look of love and the sexual tease/promise are crucial.” (Recognize here a big driver of the gender wage gap?)

Is it any wonder that the men accused of sexual harassment in late 2017 are either successful or have status, men who likely turned the women into unimportant sex objects?

And that most if not all of the women alleging sexual harassment are beautiful young starlets?

It appears men view women as sex-objects in an era when women seem to increasingly view themselves as sex-objects. This is evidenced by the possibly millions of women who over the years have uploaded to the internet nude selfie photos and videos showing them participating in the most graphic sexual behavior you can imagine.

The EEOC’s definition of sexual harassment:

“Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature constitute sexual harassment when this conduct explicitly or implicitly affects an individual’s employment, unreasonably interferes with an individual’s work performance, or creates an intimidating, hostile, or offensive work environment.

“Although the law doesn’t prohibit simple teasing, offhand comments, or isolated incidents that are not very serious, harassment is illegal when it is so frequent or severe that it creates a hostile or offensive work environment or when it results in an adverse employment decision (such as the victim being fired or demoted).”

(See the 2014 Boston Globe opinion piece “Rethink Harvard’s sexual harassment policy,” issued by 28 members of the Harvard Law School Faculty. It states, “Harvard has inappropriately expanded the scope of forbidden conduct, including by [among other things]: Adopting a definition of sexual harassment that goes significantly beyond Title IX and Title VII law.”)

Sexual harassment as defined by the EEOC gets complicated. Such terms as “severe,” “hostile,” “offensive,” “harassment,” and “unreasonably interferes with an individual’s work performance” are subjective. Their definitions can vary from person to person. Many women view the above Obama-type persistence for dates, which may come more often from co-workers, as sexual harassment. Some say a man’s compliment is sexual harassment because it makes them feel uncomfortable.

The Centers for Disease Control provides an example of how definitions can keep expanding, in this case the definition of sexual violence or coercion:

“Sexual coercion is defined as unwanted sexual penetration that occurs after a person is pressured in a nonphysical way. In NISVS, sexual coercion refers to unwanted vaginal, oral, or anal sex after being pressured in ways that included being worn down by someone who repeatedly asked for sex or showed they were unhappy; feeling pressured by being lied to, being told promises that were untrue, having someone threaten to end a relationship or spread rumors; and sexual pressure due to someone using their influence or authority.”

Near the end of the report, the CDC puts all or most of these in the category of sexual violence. The report covers the period of 2010-2012. I shudder to think what the definition of sexual violence has included since then, given how much more alienated the sexes seem to have become in the last decade. Might it one day include accidental “unwanted” glances exceeding one-tenth of a second?

We are wading ever more deeply into the sexual harassment quagmire–primarily because, in my view, the sexes do not equally share the sexual initiative-taking.

The definition seems to keep expanding and depends not only on who you are, but also on where you work. Tennessee State University announced it considers whistling “in a suggestive manner” (the “wolf” whistle?) to be sexual harassment. Depending on the whistle’s tune, it can result in a student being suspended or expelled. And sometimes sexual harassment is confused with flirting. Many employers impose zero tolerance that allows no distinction between physical assault and lewd jokes. So does it matter much how the EEOC defines sexual harassment?


We all behave pretty much according to societal expectations. A large part of these expectations is gender-role expectations. As everyone knows, males have always had certain gender-role expectations and women certain others.

Individual men and women interpret each expectation in their own way according to how they were socialized to interpret it. They also decide how the expectation should apply to them — or whether it should apply at all. Thus the sexes can have a broad range of behaviors in response to each expectation.

Take, for example, the traditional expectation that the man should initiate male-female interactions and relationships. (Below, near the end of this Male Matters USA commentary, just before PRIMARY REFERENCES, I offer what I think is the “biological” reason for the male-initiates custom.) Some people fully believe in this expectation and act accordingly; some do not believe in it in the least; some think men should show the first sign of interest and the woman should take it from there (accept or reject); some think the woman should throw out the first sign and the man ignore or respond. (There are probably myriad possibilities.)

With this in mind, please be aware that I wrote the following to reflect what I think are the sexes’ general, long-enduring, most common responses to gender role expectations regarding initiating and advancing male-female relationships. To the reader who believes they are not the most common, I suggest he or she read the January 2013 New York Times piece “The End of Courtship?” The last couple of paragraphs of the piece show that many women still insist on traditional ways of meeting and dating. (Note that the examples provided, in true New York Times fashion, make men look cheap and bad, perhaps to give the impression men are to blame for courtship’s end, which upsets many women.) I also suggest the reader see the April 30, 2011, Psychology Today’s “Why Don’t Women Ask Men Out on First Dates?

“Together, we came to understand how we beg men to express feelings, but then when men do express feelings, we call it sexism, male chauvinism, or backlash.” -Warren Farrell, author of The Myth of Male Power

Here’s how the media often treat men:

When someone says blacks’ violence must be blamed on the individual, the media, especially the liberal media, usually reply, “No. You must understand the underlying dynamics between the races that spawn black violence.” When someone says sexual harassment must be blamed on the underlying dynamics between the sexes, the liberal media tend to suggest, “No. You must blame the individual man and tell him he must change.” (The “Don’t offend women” response seems to kick in: Don’t upset women by telling them they, too, should change.)


Some years ago in an earlier time of sexual-harassment frenzy, Cosmopolitan, then and now the top-selling single women’s magazine, told women how to get a relationship going in the workplace. In doing so, it told them how to unwittingly set themselves up to be sexually harassed. (Wikipedia says of Cosmopolitan: “The magazine, and in particular its cover stories, have become increasingly sexually explicit in tone, and covers have models wearing revealing clothes.” To send what message?)



Setting the stage for men to sexually harass women.

She’s following Cosmopolitan’s advice. His “sexually harassing gaze” enrages many feminists, who never tell women to equally share the initiative-taking so they won’t have to do such misleading things that put men at risk of being charged with creating a “hostile work environment.” Photo credit:

Media outlets often acknowledge sexual harassment’s chilling effect on office romance. But that hasn’t deterred many of them, such as Fast Company, from telling readers who’re looking for love that a great place to look is at the workplace. “Hooking up with your coworkers,” the February 2017 edition of Fast Company says, “might make you better at your job.”

Do these media outlets advise women to conduct their on-the-job search for romance by directly approaching an appealing man and asking him out? Some do, but probably most do not. Following a decade of media focus on sexual harassment, Cosmopolitan told women some years ago, while under the stewardship of a woman (the late Helen Gurley Brown), to take these tactics in the workplace:

    • “Brush up against somebody in the elevator…”
    • “If you have good legs, wear a very tight, short skirt and very high heels. Bend over with your back to a man (to pick something up or look in a file drawer, etc.)….”
    • “You cross your legs and your skirt rides up….” Source: The Myth of Male Power, pp. 289-90) (Italics by Male Matters USA)

Cosmo sends the same messages about female sexuality as Playboy,” says the National Center on Sexual Exploitation (NCOSE), according to a CBN News report dated March 28, 2018. The message: women first and foremost are men’s sex objects. (Looking through any issue of Cosmo, one might also think men first and foremost are women’s success objects, which for some reason NCOSE doesn’t seem to recognize.)

The NCOSE, like such feminists as Catharine MacKinnon, supports the removal from view of all sexually explicit material. This approach to addressing women’s sexual exploitation, presumably including sexual harassment, to me seems akin to cleaning all surfaces to prevent a disease from spreading and doing nothing to understand and arrest the disease’s true cause. Both NCOSE and Mackinnonites appear to think the only cause of sexual harassment is sexually explicit depictions that trigger toxic masculinity, which all men are, again, afflicted with.

But in faulting only sexual depictions and men, they excuse the possibly hundreds of thousands of women who recognize their female sexual power and freely and frequently upload nude photos and videos of themselves participating in the most extreme sex acts.

And before they take on the insurmountable task of getting to a ban of all sexually explicit material, they may want to verify that the explosion of depicted sex, especially online, has not driven down rape and sexual harassment.

These indirect initiatives recommended by Cosmo, you’ll note, are very sexually suggestive. When a woman puts them into practice, she virtually screams, “I’m a sex object and I want sex!” (This helps explain why some men, accused of harassment mistakenly blame a woman’s “dressing and acting like she wanted it,” even though that may have in fact been the message a particular woman wanted to send.)

Might some men, weary of hearing “toxic masculinity,” a slur slung far and wide to explain sexual harassment, think these indirect initiatives are toxic femininity? (See this view on toxic femininity, and this one (which preps you on Rose McGowan before you read my discussion of her below), and this one on toxic feminism.)

At a party (and hopefully not at work!), which of these two women pictured below advertises sex more by seeming to say, “I’m a sex-object and I want it!”? Which of them is more likely to be approached by a man looking not for love but solely for sex? To whom is she more likely to say “Yes” — a George Clooney lookalike or a Harvey Weinstein lookalike?

why some men blame how women dress

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Photo credit: Google search

Rose McGowan in her “naked dress” at the 1998 MTV Video Music Awards.

To some, fashion is a statement. In the photo immediately above, what statement was celebrity Rose McGowan, who accused Harvey Weinstein of raping her in 1997, making a year after the rape at the 1998 Video Music Awards? If making a statement, to whom was she making it? Was she telling male on-lookers she wanted sex — and, being dressed for it, wanted it right that minute — because, as Stephenie Weiss said in a NY Times comment, “We [women] want sex as much as men,” and as journalist Daniel Bergner told, female desire is “base, animalistic and ravenous”?

Helen Fisher

Could children see McGowan? Did she prompt some people at the awards to take offense, which CBS’s Charlie Rose prompted when he allegedly paraded naked in front of female employees? Why should our biases allow attractive women like McGowan to get away with exhibitionism far more readily than anyone else? (It’s against the law in most places for women to expose their breasts, etc., in public.)

Suppose, say, the attractive Brad Pitt or Matt Damon attended an awards ceremony wearing a “naked outfit.” What would happen? Compare your reactions to his display of his body and sexuality with your reactions to McGowan’s display of hers. Might you realize you have somewhat of a double standard? (Incidentally, PBS’s Charlie Rose, who admitted to parading nude in front of his female employees, should have had the presence of mind to know that in this society his septuagenarian body has no appeal to anyone — except possibly to septuagenarian women. But he and Rose McGowan may have exhibitionistic disorder, or at least a subtype — which is acknowledged in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.)

Update on Charlie Rose: Women are “falling all over themselves to approach Rose….”

Update on Rose McGowan: “Last month, she revealed the details of Weinstein’s alleged assault for the first time, claiming he performed ‘forced oral sex’ on her in a hot tub without her consent.”

Until now, I had pictured a horrible, violent rape by Weinstein — not forced oral sex in a hot tub!

This is similar to an experience I once had. On my first date with a young woman I barely knew — I’d met her in the office building we both worked in — I arrived at her apartment to take her to a movie. She said, “Before we leave, let’s sit in the living room and chat for a bit.”

Within 30 seconds after we seated ourselves on her sofa, she brushed her hand across my lap. She unzipped my fly and proceeded to give me oral sex. I like oral sex as much as the next person, but I felt ill at ease. I also felt a little manipulated. I wasn’t sure I wanted more than a few dates with her, or even a second date. Did she give me the “gift” of oral sex in the way a man gives a first date a rather expensive gift in the hopes of assuring future dates a woman might not want? I know her intent was also to please me. Was Harvey Weinstein’s intent to please McGowan? Did he think his persisting for oral sex would soon see her enjoying it? We dare not ask such questions.

Maybe I read the New York Daily report too fast and my eyesight is too poor, but I didn’t see where it tells why they were in a Jacuzzi together and undoubtedly both naked. Worse, it doesn’t explain the photo below of Weinstein and McGowan taken in 2007! Ten years after he raped her and ten years before she described the assault! Before posing for the photo, did he yank her over in front of everyone at the Orpheum Theater and say, “Get over here and let me put my arm around you and you’d better smile”?

Please, someone help me understand McGowan!

Go here for a piece that chips away at McGowan’s credibility regarding the hot tub “assault.”

Harvey Weinstein and Rose McGowan at the premiere of “Grindhouse” at the Orpheum Theatre on March 26, 2007, in Los Angeles, Calif. Photo credit:

a Rose McGowan wannabe

A Rose McGowan wannabe? Bella Thorne at Coachella Valley Music and Arts Festival, April 15, 2018: Is she sending a message? Was anyone offended? No man would dare say so if he were.

add to sh art

Well, yes, of course you can. Ignore those who say you help create sexual harassment by wearing certain clothes. But what women wear is not the issue, as is made clear in this commentary.


I remember reading in the ’70s of a report on groupie girls. They’d walk into the dressing rooms of members of a rock band and proceed to disrobe. They wanted sex apparently so they could say they had “scored,” had bedded down with such-and-such rock star or his bandmembers. Rockers are humans, meaning they aren’t always in the mood. I suspect some felt pressured to go through with it or face a smearing by the groupies, a diminished rep.

Back to the naked outfit business:

A man’s “naked outfit” is not the correct gender comparison here. A generally accepted idea in society is that men want women’s bodies and women want men’s money — thus women are sex-objects, men success-objects. At the Video Music Awards, McGowan flaunted her body as a sex-object. As a success-object, a man would have to flaunt his wealth. He can’t just pull up in a fancy car and strut in a tux. He’d have to, say, wear a billboard displaying his investment portfolio and bank statements that show off his millions and other assets, perhaps under the caption “Male Power.” What might some women’s reaction be? Admiration? Desire? Resentment? Jealousy? Might not those have been some of the internal reactions some men at the music awards might have had — but knew they didn’t have society’s permission to voice — when McGowan showed off her sex-object assets with the understood caption “Female Power”?

“Many of these men are so physically disgusting, too—the thought of them forcing themselves on young women fills me with heaving disgust. Enough already.” –Claire Berlinski, freelance journalist, author of Brave Old Word: Europe in the Age of Trump

Harvey-Weinstein lookalikes may learn a brutal lesson. They may believe all they need to do to be accepted by an attractive woman is to acquire status or financial well-being. But many of these men eventually learn the attractive woman, especially if she is a beautiful starlet, wants and can get a man who is both successful and attractive himself.

Even the ordinary-looking woman may want a successful man so that in marriage she has three options available to her: work full-time, work part-time, or stay at home full-time raising their children. If attractive, she likely also wants an attractive man. Besides wanting her own eye-candy, she wants to up her odds of having attractive children.

Suppose it had always been the other way around: women were known for wanting just attractive men, and men were known for wanting attractive and successful women. (That’s becoming more possible and thus more expected as more women gain success; men’s growing expectation of female success will help close the gender wage gap.) What would radical feminists say? Would they call it a double standard? Would they demand that men stop treating women as beauty-AND-success objects?


“I was born poor, ugly, Jewish and had to fight all my life to get somewhere. You got lotsa girls, no girl looked at me until I made it big in Hollywood. Yes, I did offer them acting jobs in exchange for sex, but so did and still does everyone. But I never, ever forced myself on a single woman.”

“The power of [women’s] indirect initiatives,” says Warren Farrell, “is that they put neither the woman’s ego nor her career on the line.” (If you’re receptive to men’s feelings, you might understand this female power could stir in many men a resentment toward women.)

But the problem with many of women’s indirect initiatives is that they attract Mr. Wrong as easily as Mr. Right, both of whom must put both their ego and their career on the line if they want to fnd out which of them indeed is her Mr. Right.

If Mr. Right responds, all is well and a courtship may begin. But if Mr. Wrong responds — which in reality may happen often — how is a woman instructed to handle him?

Is she told Mr. Wrong is the occasional price a woman must pay because men can’t always know for sure if a woman isn’t interested until they make an advance? Is she advised to say politely and convincingly, “No. I’m sorry, but I’m not interested”?

Sometimes she does receive such sensible advice. Increasingly, though, it seems she’s told differently, mostly by the largely unquestioned theorizing of radical feminists (RFs henceforth; radical feminists shouldn’t be confused with equity feminists, who are concerned about equity also for boys and men). She is encouraged to think of Mr. Wrong as someone who offended her and created for her a “hostile work environment*,” especially if he approached her again after being told No.

She may be advised to find out if Mr. Wrong violated one of the rules that keep multiplying as a result of the ever-expanding definition of sexual harassment. (In “Ninth Circuit Court Denies Men Equal Protection At Work For Expressing Less Emotion Than Women,” I analyze another troubling expansion added in September 2005.)

That advice is more likely to be followed if Mr. Wrong is unattractive. According to a 1994 study, reported on by Psychology Today, Sanford Braver, a psychologist at Arizona State University, found the more handsome a man is, especially if he is single, the less likely he is ever to be accused of misconduct. See also the November 2019 study, “Oppression or Opportunity? Sexual Strategies and the Perception of Sexual Advances,” which says, “Finally, the same behavior from an attractive or physically attractive actor is perceived as less harmful than from an unattractive actor.”  (I can hear women telling an unmarried female co-worker who complained about Mr. Handsome Single Guy, “Are you crazy? You’ll never be able to date anyone from this office.” Or: “I wish he’d sexually harass me.”)

“Male power,” despite popular feministsplaining, has little or nothing to do with it. (On men’s “power,” see Warren Farrell’s book, The Myth of Male Power.)

 “The bad behavior is a defense against being powerless.”
—Christopher Kilmartin, author, The Masculine Self

“Men with ‘hostile masculinity’ find power over women to be a sexual turn-on. They feel anger at being rejected by a woman. [I would say they feel deep hurt that is expressed as anger, one of men’s few ways of expression. An angry man is often a man who is crying. -Male Matters] This is something that researchers believe probably happened to them a lot when they were young.”

“Dr. Malamuth says he has new, unpublished research that shows that men who are aggressive toward women are more likely to look for or create a situation where women are more vulnerable. So it’s no coincidence that they are the ones who seek out power—especially over young, beautiful women, who were the ones who tended to reject them when they were young.”

“Men with ‘impersonal sexuality’ prefer sex without intimacy or a close connection, which often leads them to seek promiscuous sex or multiple partners. Often, but not always, this type of person has had a difficult home environment as a child, with abuse or violence, or they had some anti-social tendencies as adolescents.”

“Males who hurt hurt us,” Warren Farrell says in “The Boy Crisis.”

Many feminists say women abuse others because they were abused themselves — but men abuse because they have power and privilege in the “patriarchy.” Do feminists really want men to roll over and accept these stacked explanations?

-Quotes from the Wall Street Journal’s “Power’s Role In Sexual Harassment,” by Elizabeth Bernstein, February 5, 2018

“Conventional wisdom,” Psychology Today says of Braver’s and his partner’s study, “holds that sexual advances from people in positions of power have a coercive edge, and thus are felt as more harassing. But Virgil Sheets, Ph.D., and Sanford Braver, Ph.D., found that it has little to do with a man’s position within the organization. Attractive, single men were least likely to be accused of sexual harassment. Although the team expected that people with higher status would be more desirable as a potential date or mate–and so less likely to be seen as harassing — social status didn’t seem to affect the subjects’ perceptions of harassment.”

But another study, reported on by The Journal of Social Issues in 1982 (approximately the end of another high-peak era of sexual-harassment complaints, perhaps resulting from Lin Farley’s 1978 book The Sexual Harassment of Women on the Job), had this to say in an abstract:

Female flight attendants were asked to “record the incidence of sexual harassment by personnel of higher, equal, and lower status.”

“It was hypothesized that the lower the status of the harasser, the more negative the recipient’s affective state. Results show the affective state of the recipient is most negative with lower-status personnel engaging in moderate verbal and physical harassment.”

Are sexual-harassment laws largely in response to women’s desire to keep unattractive and/or unsuccessful men away?

Who creates sexual harassment? Men only, as the liberal media and feminists say? Or men, women, courting behavior, Cosmo/Playboy-type magazines, and radical feminists? Think about how each contributes to setting up conditions for the harassment.

When a man compliments a woman at work, he often does so merely to foster harmony, as he might do with another man. If he is interested in her romantically, he may compliment her to show not only that he likes her, but also to test out her responses to see whether she might be receptive to a request for a date.

Such “testing-out” compliments have long been part of how men try to open the door to a date and a relationship with a woman. Since the Ninth Circuit Court in 1991 expressed the view that even well-intentioned compliments can form the basis for sexual harassment claims, some men in the workplace have shifted from testing women out with words of appreciation to dodging them as much as possible.

Sometimes at work, married men, such as Fox News’ Roger Ailes and Bill O’Reilly, seek affairs. Sometimes so do married women: Meanna found that women “get bored more quickly from sex with a long-term partner.” Many married women, like single women, learn how to “initiate” in the indirect Cosmopolitan style above. 

See Part 2:  How do some men feel about sexual harassment and radical feminists’ influence on how it’s viewed and dealt with? In this Part, I take off the gloves.

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52 Responses to In-depth: How We Waded Into The Sexual Harassment Quagmire — And How to Wade Out: One Man’s View (Part 1 of 3 Parts)

  1. booogiemann says:

    Fascinating reading!! Well spoken, well researched, well thought out, well done.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. Matthew says:

    I have been the victim of a “Cry wolf” scenario and lost one of my very first jobs. It affected my father so much, he refused to hire women for his technology firm which employs nearly 75 people (step-mother being the only female). His reasoning was very clear. He said he wanted to take no chances on sexual harassment. The company hired alot of new immigrants who may not be acclimated to our system, where women have such strong rights. He preferred to be out of the office for weeks and never worry about a lawsuit. He used this as an umbrella excuse. But I don’t mind.
    When I go into the workplace, women get away with murder. They talk about pay discrepancy, sexual harassment, and other issues. But I talk about, extra sick days, and gross differences in professional attire. Men, for so long, have been vilified even for compliments but I have found workplace relationships to break up the monotony of the job, whether they be just friendly, or much more. The problem is, if a man says something, ANYTHING wrong. Many women will go straight to HR or management. So. I stopped taking the ques from women. The long looks across a desk, the hair toss, attention sighs, invites out for lunch. All of this, to avoid ever having my name sullied with something so detrimental as sexual harassment case, which could have been avoided.
    And while we’re at it. I’d like to think all that bra burning and female empowerment garbage changed us for the better. But my bias shows. Women still expect the world from a man. A man is still expected to pay for many dates. If a woman doesn’t have a car, she expects the man to have one. If the woman lives at home, the man is expected to have a place. Women expect men to buy them drinks in social settings. I just don’t get it. Why fight for the right to earn something close to your male counter-part, only to reverse back to the chivalrous era when it suits you?
    Can you please just make up your mind?


    • pvblivs says:

      Well, feminism has made up its mind. (Sorry, my experience shows there is not such thing as “equity feminism.” All feminism is what the author calls “radical feminism.”) They want “equality” in all conditions in which they perceive men to have an advantage. But they want women to keep every advantage they have. Ultimately, the goal of feminism is to oppress men.


      • Judy is a Punk says:

        It’s a perception issue, and certainly, many people are distancing themselves from feminism because it’s had such a poor public image for several decades (some of this is by design). The radical feminists, who are usually separatists, are currently a very small lunatic fringe, mostly on the internet. They read second-wave feminist books from the 1960s and very early 70s (i.e. pre-Dworkin/McKinnon, and I’m excluding the fringe like Valerie Solanis) and deliberately misconstrue what’s being said. Many of those texts are simply emblematic of their time. When they state, for example, that in Tennessee, a woman can’t get a loan without her husband’s signature, they state it because it was true, in that place, at that time. The radicals twist the statement around as if it is even reality in 2013, and take it to its absurd extreme, e.g. “Women must live in exile from men.”

        Radical feminists actually aren’t even interested in men anymore. Their true enemy now, in the second decade of the 21st century, are trans women – XY-born individuals whose brain gender is female, who take hormones and undergo gender-change operations so their physical gender matches their brain gender. Whether you like trans women or dislike them, or even if you have no opinion on the matter, I’m sure you can at least agree that there is no “diabolical plot by men to infiltrate female-only spaces,” and that trans women have not been “invented by men” for this purpose, but that’s not how these loons see it. They want to strip trans women of their human rights.

        The rest of feminism, which is 99.99% of what you read about in the mainstream media, is pop-psychology pabulum and the marketing of pop-culture passed off as a movement. As The Last Psychiatrist writes (and do read his blog; it’s informative), this is not activism, and the people who produce this muck never intend it to be. No, it is a collection of upwardly mobile, privileged white women demanding to be handed power without assuming the responsibility of that power.

        There are scores of people who believe in true equality for the sexes/genders, but you will not find them on the internet. I generally refrain from engaging in MRA vs. feminist debates, because they always end in a lot of finger-pointing and name-calling. The people who want true equality, and not lip-service equality, or “girl power” to consume feel-good messages from Jezebel are mostly just out there living their lives. You won’t find them in your online space, and if you encounter one elsewhere (like, say on a news website), you won’t know you’re talking to one, because they don’t advertise their views. They are young and old, male and female, black and white, gay and straight. They are what I like to call “ordinary folks.”


    • Judy is a Punk says:

      I’m sorry that you lost your first job because of sexual harassment charges that were false and ruinous. That must be very frustrating. I was laid off from a new director job a year ago because my boss falsely decided I was too ill to work for him. It’s not the same, and in my case, I was let go because the company didn’t want me actually USING the health insurance package they so “generously” provided to employees, but I sympathize with how it feels to find yourself down and out, through no fault of your own, and with no control over the situation.

      I lost my first job in my profession (which was my second professional job) because, after a year of listening to my boss talking dirty to me – comments included telling me that I looked sexy in my boots, that I didn’t even know how great of a trophy wife I would be, and that I should leave the field to work the phone-sex lines advertised in the newspaper classifieds because I had the “voice of a hooker” – he decided he didn’t feel like paying me anymore. However, he knew I could sue, or more accurately, that some women might sue, because of the work environment (the company’s employees also made generous use of a colorful array of racial and gay slurs) so he gave me a payout and made sure I could collect unemployment. I always dressed in a conservative fashion – still do – and do not discuss sex at work, so I suppose you could blame me, or my behaviors, but some things are very much one-sided (like false harassment lawsuits tend to be).

      Later, I switched my professional focus to a much more technical sub-specialty of my field, and began to enter male-dominated offices. I avoided the big, corporate places because I do find that the work environments there are sterile and neutered. They tend to hire a lot of 30-/40-something female middle-managers (of which I am one), but their hires can be very prissy and proper, and hell-bent on turning a relaxed, creative environment into a corporate hell where everyone’s a stickler for the rules because they frown on any behavior that may even SUGGEST sex.

      So anyway, I was a manager, and I was a very popular one. I earned 20K less than my male counterparts at every job I worked (I imagine for reasons similar to why your father will not hire women at all), and I had fewer options than my male colleagues when I wanted to change jobs (many companies would prefer to hire a less-qualified man because they perceive that women bring problems to the workplace – sexual harassment, maternity leave, etc. – which angers me, because I don’t want to sue anyone, and my husband and I don’t want kids). But my teams were consistently the most profitable in the history of the company.

      The only problem was, I’d keep encountering ‘That Guy’ at my job. ‘That Guy” was an older man, usually in his early 50s, with a troubled marriage. It always started off innocently enough. I’d be managing him and complement him in a professional manner for a job well-done. He’d take that as an invitation, and while it would start out innocently (saying I looked nice when dressed up for a meeting), soon I’d find him touching my shoulders and letting his hand linger far too long at parties. Or asking me personal questions about my sex life with my husband. And then, I’d start getting e-mails, which would grow progressively dirtier. I would respond in a business-like tone, ignoring the implications of his comments, and he would up the ante.

      The most recent guy demanded to meet with me to discuss “what was happening between us” – evidently, he’d imagined a budding courtship without my permission. I’ve been gone from that job for two years now and live halfway across the country, and this man made a point to tell me how he was thinking of dumping his new girlfriend, and sending me a dirty picture on Valentine’s Day. My only recourse is to ignore it. Women who sue for sexual harassment are all but ensuring they never work in their professions again. And I don’t care to have my personal business exposed to the world, either. I now work at a predominantly female company and it pays crap. I’d like to get back into the male-dominated companies, but I’m not sure how to proceed.

      And obviously, our current system sucks. Sexual harassment goes both ways, and everyone is affected by it. Some are hurt by false accusations, others, like me, will always be on the receiving end, and we’re powerless to stop it – and rendered even more powerless when companies view us as the problem, women as a monolith, and enact a blanket policy to stop hiring women. The question in modern workplaces becomes, “How do you balance appropriate addressing of sexual harassment with elimination of false accusations?” And feminists would do well to pay attention to this one, because female bosses harassing male subordinates is becoming more and more of a problem, as women acquire more power and income in the workplace. How do you prove innocence with a false accusation, or more importantly, how do you penalize someone who has brought forth a false accusation? And if you are being harassed, or are being held back at work because you’re viewed primarily as a sex object (and this is going in both directions nowadays too, or should I say, becoming more gender-blind), how do you assert that the advances and comments are not welcome while protecting your own career and reputation.

      I hesitate to post this because when I used to post on gender sites more frequently, I’d get at least 1-2 male commenters per blog telling me that I deserve to be treated as I do because I’m a woman, and I need a taste of my own medicine, as if I were part of some great, evil female monolith, out to get all the men in the world. (I got it just as bad on feminist sites, but this isn’t a feminist site, so I’ll reserve my critique of them for a more relevant post.) That makes me sad. And it’s not productive. I’m looking for concrete ideas to solve a major problem, not teasing, or assigning blame. I’m looking forward to some suggestions and some productive discussion here. I’m hopeful.


      • crocket says:

        I think a company needs a private formal legal system with proper procedures for resolving conflicts. For example, people choose juries, and juries make judgments, based on evidences. You know how it works in public courts. There should be a formal way to resolve conflicts so that false accusations are deterred.


    • gemguy says:

      The women are just having it both ways, when and if they can and when it suits them and their agenda.
      They use all the tools they can for themselves or against us when and if it suits them while some of them are very clever but sinister at the same time.
      Yes, any man is better off to do his woman chasing far away from the office environment as it can all to often lead to a mans ruin in more ways than one.


  3. AEonFlux says:

    I don’t have time to parse out all the things that are messed up about this, but here are three main points I’d like to make:

    1) Every single movie you cited was written by one or more men. It is men who are creating these media scenarios that you say are giving you the impression that persistence in the face of a woman’s rejection is desirable behavior.

    2) Cosmopolitan is in no way a feminist publication. By holding up their teachings as contradictory to what feminists want, you’re creating a false argument. Feminists, and I’m talking equity feminists here, frequently critique Cosmo’s advice.

    3) If women say no, and you take them at their word, and that turns out to not be what they want (because they were playing some game or whatever) then their limited dating success will discourage them from playing that game anymore, and encourage them to be more frank about their needs. You’re also neglecting to take into account all the slut-shaming that happens to women when they eagerly and equally participate in dating the way you’re envisioning. Why do you discount women’s concerns that they’ll be considered “too fast” or “too easy”? Those are real experience with real-live consequences, especially in a professional environment.

    Most feminists recognize that our society isn’t fair for people of any gender or sexual orientation and want to make changes that will better for everyone. But men disproportionately make and benefit from these rules. When you lament that if only men were more free to express their feelings the way women do, you fail to mention who it is that censors that. Research indicates that it’s men, men who discourage other men from showing those feelings with homophobic or sexist slurs. If you want facts to back this us, as I know you will, I’m citing Michael Kimmel’s Guyland.

    If you want to work as a team, if you dream of a less-divisive future where it gets better for everyone, maybe look at the facts instead of portioning out more blame. Just trying to be pragmatic here.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Thanks for your comment.

      You seem to be an ideological feminist, one to whom gender always matters. To wit: “all the movies are written by a man.” Even if they were, what does that have to do with anything I said? Both male and female writers try to reflect society as they see it. Female writers would have done the exact same thing.

      Re: “Cosmopolitan is in no way a feminist publication.” Never said it was. But it has been and is widely read. It influences, whether it’s “right” or “wrong.” That’s the point, not who publishes the mag. I criticize the mag also.

      Re: “You’re also neglecting to take into account all the slut-shaming that happens to women when they eagerly and equally participate in dating the way you’re envisioning.” I document that men like it when women equally share in the initiative-taking.

      Re: “Why do you discount women’s concerns that they’ll be considered “too fast” or “too easy”?” Apparently you didn’t read this: “The idea that women shouldn’t be listened to is reinforced, Zilbergeld adds, each time a woman initially resists a man’s advances to avoid being considered “loose” or “easy”….”

      Re: “But men disproportionately make and benefit from these rules.” This is where you are most ideological. I and thousands of other men would strongly disagree with this sexist statement. Both sexes make and both benefit from and are hurt by the rules both make. You ignored the fact that the highly influential Cosmo mag is published by a woman and written mostly by women. Google such books as “The Rules,” which is written by a woman, then come back and tell me men make the rules.

      Re: “When you lament that if only men were more free to express their feelings the way women do, you fail to mention who it is that censors that” Both sexes censor but only idelological feminists (female and male) won’t admit it. Now this: Who has censored women from expressing their sexual feelings?

      Michael Kimmel is your male counterpart.

      The only people I blame are the media and feminists who refuse to see the male side of things. Please be sitting down when you read this:
      “The Doctrinaire Institute for Women’s Policy Research”


      • AEonFlux says:

        The reason it’s important that men wrote all those movies is that when you’re trying to parse out what real women want from men, it’s pretty crucial to look at the behavior of real women. Not women as male writers imagine them. And Hollywood movies are not known for reflecting accurate pictures of the world anyway. So when you use those movies as your reference point for the way people can or should act, you’re starting with a flawed model, one not predicated on reality.

        “The idea that women shouldn’t be listened to is reinforced each time they say ‘no’ to avoid being seen as ‘loose’ or ‘easy’.” This is a double-bind, meaning women can’t win. Because saying “yes” and then being thought of as “loose” or “easy” comes with its own social consequences. Like not being listened to. Which is the same thing that happens to you if you say “no”. So, wait…what are we supposed to do? You may find it frustrating that women don’t seem to say what they mean, but do you think they would do that just to mess with you, some guy they hardly know? Like, for fun? Women who say “yes” too often, and the definition of how much is too often is never made clear and invariably changes with each new person you ask, suffer social consequences that can bleed over into professional, legal, physical and emotional consequences. If you don’t understand what that’s like, lucky you…but if you do, why can’t you find some empathy instead of enmity for people in a similar plight?

        Recognizing a differential between the way two groups are treated is not sexist. Observing a phenomenon does not make you prejudiced, even if the phenomenon you observe IS sexist. Both sexes do participate in our society and reinforce and recreate it through their actions every day. You’ll get no argument from me there. But women are disproportionately represented in every type of leadership out there. And when they’re not, the groups are usually special-interest, women-specific things.

        Who has censored women from expressing their sexual feelings? Hundreds upon thousands of years of prizing female virginity and fidelity, resulting in the suppression of their sexuality. An insistence that the purity of a woman directly translated into her worth as a human being, sexist attitudes codified into law which made women first the property of their fathers and husbands, and later the sort of backward child-wards of their indulgent husbands. Most religions shame women for enjoying their sexuality, police who ask what a rape victim was wearing or if she’s been drinking are censoring her for her sexuality. When you suffer sexual bodily harm and get no justice because you decided not to just stay home knitting, your sexuality is being censored.

        Honestly, I feel all this MRA stuff has got to be the growing pains of having to learn to share your power toys. You’ve had a good run men, and it’s not over, you just have to let everyone else play, too, now. And that means that not everything gets to go your way all the time. Grownups compromise and cooperate, they don’t undermine each other at every turn to protect their little pile of figurative gold. It’s not a zero sum game.


      • Ziggity Zach says:

        The male side of things is what has dominated culture. You are attempting to continue it with this excuse and blame based epistle. It is clear you like to write and not listen to what women say.

        “If you are tired of all the identity politics bu@^^# then stop acting like a man afraid he is becoming as disregarded as everyone else”.


      • Re: “It is clear you like to write and not listen to what women say.”

        It is clear you are a male chauvinist/protector of women who likes to not reflect or listen to what men say.

        Don’t know how you could read a 20,000-word commentary and respond with so little depth.

        Re: “If you are tired of all the identity politics bu@^^# then stop acting like a man afraid he is becoming as disregarded as everyone else”.

        What on earth are you talking about?


  4. AEonFlux:

    Re: “The reason it’s important that men wrote all those movies is that when you’re trying to parse out what real women want from men, it’s pretty crucial to look at the behavior of real women.” Go back and read my Foreword.

    Re: “The behavior of real women”: So all women behave exactly the same? Would you please describe that monolithic behavior at, say, a singles dance or bar, or in the workplace. In other words, please be real. You have now the opportunity to tell men exactly how women behave. BTW, how did you learn how all women behave? That must have been exhausting.

    Re: “Recognizing a differential between the way two groups are treated is not sexist.” No, but your ideological-feminist interpretation of the differential is.

    Re: “Honestly, I feel all this MRA stuff has got to be the growing pains of having to learn to share your power toys.” What on earth are you talking about? As usual, an ideological feminist devolves into talk about “male power.” Please list all the power “toys,” privileges, and rights you think men have, and I will respond with a list of all the powers, privileges, and rights I think women have. One thing’s for sure, you did not read “The Doctrinaire Institute for Women’s Policy Research” That commentary will be my reference.

    I hate to say this, but you come across exactly like a feminist from the 1970s. Absolutely no change in your thought since then. I’ve read hundreds of feminist books. How many books have you read by gender experts like Warren Farrell? I’ll wager not a single solitary one. If that’s true, who’s biased and inflexible?

    You’ve dodged my major point in “Sexual Harassment Quagmire”: how we can dig out of it with the true equality that you only purport to believe in.

    I will not respond to you again unless you tell me what books you’ve read similar to those by Warren Farrell. At this point, you simply do not know enough about men (or women) to qualify as a well-rounded, reasoned debater.


    • AEonFlux says:

      It’s okay, we don’t have to continue to debate. But I do think you should get a few things straightened out in your reading comprehension, so that your discourse skills don’t lead you astray. I did not say that all women act the same, or suggest that they were some monolithic group. I said that real women are different from fictionalized women, and that basing your understanding of the motivations and behavior of real women on the fictionalized accounts of women written by men was not a solid foundation on which to base your argument. What you have done in your reply is to put words in my mouth that don’t reflect what I actually said. Straw man argument.

      You’ve also made a lot of assumptions about my education (or lack thereof) without knowing a single thing about me except what you can glean from two blog comments. It’s a big leap, an inaccurate one in point of fact, but providing you with a list of books or articles that I’ve read so that you can certify that I am indeed qualified for the privilege of conversing with you is a waste of my time. Besides which, your reported extensive reading does not seem to have broadened your understanding or deepened your empathy.

      Many, many things have changed since the 70s. However, your arguments reflect a misunderstanding of some of the very basic tenets of feminist thought, so if it sounded like a primer, it’s because I just didn’t feel you were in a place to discuss some of the more contemporary or esoteric issues. Especially since you keep misreading or skipping parts of my argument. Like where you ask me what privileges men have that women don’t–if you scroll up you’ll see where I mentioned women’s continuing lack of political representation. So far as yet, men retain most of the power to legislate, and that’s a huge privilege. It’s that one that allows people to codify our social beliefs into legal doctrine which must be followed, which is not discretionary. At slightly over half the population, women should make up just over half the population of our governing bodies.

      I’m going to put my participation here to rest because I get the feeling that you’re not really interested in true discourse, that your mind is already completely made up. But I really appreciate your comparison with Michael Kimmel. It’s the best compliment I’ve received all week.

      And I did read your doctrinaire (well, I read the first 3/4 but then skimmed the rest because I just couldn’t take all the fallacies anymore without my head exploding), but it’s so full of flawed logic and inaccurate information that I don’t feel make your case at all. You use a lot of passive voice about what is expected and required of men without making clear who does this requiring. Plus, you present a lot of conclusions with no hard data–at least in that first section on earning. Women’s sexual selection is not a driving force for men’s wages or career choices, in fact most research I’ve read in the last ten years suggests that it is not the opinions of women but of other men that drive men’s behavior.

      You know what, you’re right, we shouldn’t discuss this anymore–there are more mistakes in logic and presentation than I have the time or inclination to engage with. Your writing is sensationalistic and you have literally said nothing new, contributing nothing to the discussion that I haven’t read from MRAs a hundred times over. And your use of terms like “gays” and “blacks” and comparing them with women negates the experiences of all those groups. They, like women, are not monolithic, their unique challenges in this society are not comparable, and your account of their motivations and behavior is about as accurate as the depictions of women that your male screenwriters offer.

      You know what’s really divisive? When people try to tell you what hurts them and society, and instead of listening you say, but what about what hurts ME?! Feminists agree that our society is hard on men too, but since most laws and social standards assume maleness as the default, women have had to take on the responsibility for advocating for ourselves. Men have left us out of the decision-making process for centuries, so pardon us if for the first hundred years or two we focus on catching up before we make men the center of our attention again.

      I wish you well, but yes, let us end this discussion here.


      • Good ending! I think the “problem” between you and me is not so much you or I but our method of communicating. Email is the worst way to do it. I’ve had many face-to-face discussions like this, and they are far less tedious and easier to work through. I know personally several people who see things from your view, and they happen to be very good friends of mine. I have a feeling that would be true of you if I knew you personally. I wish you well, as well.


      • Never Blue Again says:

        You feminist are beyond debate…….. because you are beyond logic.

        “Like where you ask me what privileges men have that women don’t–if you scroll up you’ll see where I mentioned women’s continuing lack of political representation. So far as yet, men retain most of the power to legislate, and that’s a huge privilege. It’s that one that allows people to codify our social beliefs into legal doctrine which must be followed, which is not discretionary. At slightly over half the population, women should make up just over half the population of our governing bodies.”

        More political representation is not a privilege. It’s a duty .Which is earned by men. No one is stopping you from being a politician. Is this how you define privilege … ? Then why most women can give birth without a man (sperm donor/bank) but a man can’t.. Then it is also a privilege to women. Why don’t we make more invest into artificial womb technology to make it fair….. ?

        “At slightly over half the population, women should make up just over half the population of our governing bodies.”

        Are you insane … ? This is like saying China has a population of 1.34 billion. Nearly one fifth of the world population. So china should control one fifth of the world.

        Seriously these are the feminist logic……….. ??? Huh…. !!!


  5. Aaron says:

    This is a brilliant piece of writing that I couldn’t stop reading. Seemingly unbiased views expressed by presenting excerpts from several industry experts. A piece well worth my time.


  6. caprizchka says:

    It’s been a good many years since I was a hot young thing in the workplace, but I remember. The body is not always under one’s control and neither are the hormones and emotions. It would seem to me that Feminism marshaled all that discomfort and somehow framed it to make it “Patriarchy’s Fault” as opposed to Nature. Meanwhile, body dimorphism of some sort or another is epidemic, and so is malnutrition and mental illness–mostly on the female side of the population but males are catching up. It would seem to me that women’s magazines like Cosmopolitan are some of the worst influences on young women. I remember when I decided to quit them cold turkey at aged 30. I felt so much better about myself afterward. They are a burden! Meanwhile, so many women are terrified of ending up alone that the mixed signals of media get to be overwhelming. Fear–conscious and subconscious–seems to me to be underwriting all weird modern behavior particularly from a gender perspective.

    It would seem to me under the current climate that any workplace romance should be considered highly risky at all stages, including mere contemplation thereof. Moreover, if one decided to proceed regardless, it would seem to me the sign of an emotionally and socially mature woman for *her* to make the first move–otherwise, how could it possibly be worth it?

    I hope that more employers have prospective employees sign arbitration agreements that stick and otherwise find ways to protect themselves. I certainly could not blame an employer for failing to hire women given the murky legal waters. I’m so out of step that I wish that it would be possible to demand that a prospective female employee not get pregnant for a defined term. Ultimately, however, I think that the answer to so many of our social ills is to divest from the corporate world and instead turn to small business and entrepreneurialism whereby the family become the employees and otherwise completely put the whole notion of the sterile workplace in the grave. Forced integration and diversity is for the big-box employers–not the family business. The former is forcing us all into devolution to the lowest common denominator.

    For what it’s worth, as a career woman in high tech I was often the only female in the office but yet I exuded an “all business” aura which netted me only one instance of “harassment” which I was able to handle all by myself. In that office, however, there were other women who did complain about the same immigrant’s behavior (he wasn’t fully Americanized–is that a crime?) and I was called into the H.R. office for my reluctant testimony. I couldn’t understand why the other women couldn’t just say, “No”, like I did. Why was his persistence such a big deal? That’s all it was by my accounting.

    My own meme–which I proliferate as much as I can is this: “Sexual Harassment? Ask yourself: What Would Mae West Do? Let a raunchy sense of humor be your parasol.” Women today are such delicate hypocrites.


    • What a thoughtful comment! Thanks for your perspective. By the way, I suspect that if the “immigrant” in your place of work had looked like George Clooney, the women would not have complained. That’s why the comedian Chris Rock says sexual harassment laws/policies are meant only for unappealing men — but the laws/policies tend also to keep appealing men away.

      Thanks again.


  7. robocaller says:

    I’ve been reading the articles on this site, especially interested in the perspective the authors here on how men deal with their emotions. I don’t know where to post this comment, but after seeing the back and forth with AEonFlux, I thought you might be able to give me a reply.

    I agree with the authors here that there needs to be a place for men to talk about their social experiences, and also that, in so far as men are quiet about their feelings because they fear reprisal — from either men or women — that’s a negative thing and encourages repression.

    However, I think, in turn, the Feminist attack on stoic ideals has also been harmful socially, to both sexes. When people are taught that if they don’t let out all their feelings, they’re repressed, and if they don’t let all of their sexual feelings, they’re repressed sexually, it leads to social environments that discourage temperance and self-control. This can be seen in the binge drinking culture on college campuses, military bases, and elsewhere, which often ends up leading to incidences of rape. In turn, in many families I’ve witnessed, the women don’t moderate themselves and become excessively controlling and emotionally abusive towards their spouses and children. The husband, in turn, unable to cope with this — even after communicating his feelings, not remaining silent about them — might turn to drinking, and this worsens the situation.

    Plus, I’ve also seen plenty of incidences in which a person who honestly is self-reliant and doesn’t feel need to express himself — not from fear and repression, but simply because he’s content not to — is punished socially for not being expressive enough.

    So, to the extent men’s rights forums like this express a need for a social forum for mens issues, I agree with them. To the extent that they join hands with Feminists and further attack stoic ideals, I disagree.


    • Thanks for your well-written, heart-felt comment. I can’t disagree with most of what you said.

      We express feelings to various degrees. Some people, as you said, are just fine not expressing their feelings. You said, “Plus, I’ve also seen plenty of incidences in which a person who honestly is self-reliant and doesn’t feel need to express himself — not from fear and repression, but simply because he’s content not to — is punished socially for not being expressive enough.”

      Did you read “Because men express less emotion at work than women do, the Ninth Circuit Court denies them equal protection”

      And did you read “We often have different responses to the sexes for the same behavior”

      Expressing feelings can be tricky for men. If you rarely express your feelings, your spouse could rightly claim “I don’t know you after all these years.” That’s one danger of being stoic. What would you think if your spouse were sexually stoic, never expressing her sexual feelings? You might wonder if she really desires you.

      I’ll try to go into more when I have more time. Have to go pick up my granddaughter! She’s not quite two years old, and I do try to be expressive with her because children like responses from adults. In my view, enthusiastic responses, where applicable, help validate them and make them feel appreciated and cared for.

      Be sure that you’re not “repressing” your feelings to avoid being hurt. Being hurt is part of life. Learning how to deal with the hurt is part of life, too.


      • robocaller says:

        Repressing your feelings to avoid being hurt is the very opposite of stoicism, in my understanding.

        Stoicism is about learning to be happy, learning to deal with life, and learning not to be controlled by your emotions. To the degree that someone represses their feelings at all, that’s not genuine stoicism, because instead of learning to be happy, the person is just ignoring how unhappy he is, and to the degree that someone does that to avoid getting hurt its even less so — instead of being strong enough to deal with getting hurt, he’s just demonstrating how controlled by his feelings he actually is.

        And, of course, it it can’t always be about you. If there’s a real problem, you have to deal with it, regardless if whether you’re happy not to. Ignoring a problem doesn’t make it go away; it often makes it worse. And if someone you love is upset, you have to work it out. You can’t be happy as long as they’re unhappy. And if someone needs to know you care about them, you need to show it. But, a key stoic virtue is patience, and I feel patience helps people do all of that better.

        Honestly, I think the saying that “communication makes a good relationship” is important advice — a lot of relationships do fail on communication — but its overrated. In some of the best relationships I’ve seen, the partners don’t feel the need to talk a lot. They don’t need to re-affirm they love each other, because they know it, and they work out their problems easily. The mutual tolerance of the spouses towards each other helps prevent bad feelings from brewing. On the other hand, in some of the worst relationships I’ve seen, the partners talk *a lot*. And a lot of it really isn’t “good talk.” Its stuff like gossip and criticism of neighbors. I find, it usually isn’t *lack* of communication that’s a problem in most relationships, its a lot of *bad* communication.

        I did read the article on the Ninth Circuit decision — but not the other one. My only complaint about that was that it seemed to reaffirm the idea that it was necessarily bad that men are less expressive than women, and this is always a negative, socially taught behavior. Sometimes it can take a bad form — I agree — but it isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

        I would put it this way — I think there are some things men can learn from women, and other things women can learn from men.

        People need to stop reading stoicism as synonymous with repression.


      • You wrote an excellent reply. Your definition of stoicism is one I agree with. Meanwhile, bear in mind you are expressing your feelings about being a stoic! And you’ve done a great job.

        To me, men are damned if they do express feelings, and damned if they don’t.

        Feel free to post your comments at the end of the “Ninth Circuit” piece — or anywhere. You write well and intelligently.


  8. gemguy says:

    What I like to often point out to people concerns how the way things are has a lot to do with who created the environment that we all too often have to deal with.
    It is a mans world out there more so than a women’s, relative to who exactly built the world that we all presently live in.
    When I think about all that women do have in their lives and their abilities to do what they can and often do achieve, I come to realize that it is men that have provided the women with the ability to do what they can do…far, far more so than their own abilities to change their environment.

    Most of the feminists like to think that all they have in their lives comes from their own initiatives and or their own hard work alone, while feminism and any gains in the feminist arena are hard won by way of women banding together and demanding equality for themselves….and all their achievements realized by way of their own efforts….. ..that is, to their way of thinking.

    If you ask yourself where did or where does the ability to do what they can do originate from, you come to realize that all the tools and ways and means and therefore abilities on hand for women to progress to this point are in effect provided to them by the societal environment surrounding them having been created by men….. far, far more so than ever provided by women.

    You have to realize that the comfortable safe environments and everything entailed,that so many women live in and more or less take for granted, were not created by women overall while it is men that have provided them with the powers and abilities they do presently have available to them.

    In countries like Canada and the USA ( usually the 2 countries that are commonly recognized as the most progressive counties concerning women rights and feminism ) you can clearly see that there are no real barriers to women’s ability to make their already semi charmed lives ( all the better ) if they really want to work hard to do so.
    Bear in mind, what has been created by men and often to the advantage of women also was not created out of thin air while the men that changed the world for the better had to commonly struggle like hell to achieve what they achieved resulting in the world as we know it….a modern world created by men that greatly benefits women also while near everything that men created is utilized by women also making their lives just as comfortable as men’s lives.

    The whole system , so to speak, is available to them to be utilized while we see that many women are utilizing the system, that men created, to their advantage while it is often not to a mans advantage….but the fact remains the system overall was created and built by the minds of men and men’s ceaseless imagination and their inherent drive to create…far more than women.

    In effect you are witnessing how the system that men have created and sustained being used against them to the advantage of women in a number of changing social circumstances.

    For example: The legal and justice system that is used against men by women was not created by women, although there are some women who are working participants and players in the existing system , so to speak, that men created…not women…but it is there to be utilized by and for women also.
    It is not a perfect system but historically if you follow the history of how laws and the judicial system evolved you will learn it was men who created the system…not women…but women use it against men when it is to their advantage.
    Point being, if men had not created such a system then the tools and the ways and means to fight against injustices and or perceived injustices would not be available to women to be used in their favor also.
    The women complain there is not enough women in political positions as if the only reason for that is men doing everything they can do to stop women from participating.
    Not ( entirely true ) as through the ages there has been numerous women who were involved in politics and held political positions within a ( man made political system ) not a political system created and sustained by women.
    The women that did participate had to fight hard to be a participant …but that fact simply underlines the fact that nearly all and any players in the political arena have had to fight and struggle to be rewarded with such a position as it is a tough game to play.
    Point is: Should the men just simply give those positions to the women, in a system that men created, not women, while stepping aside because the feminist and women’s groups call foul.
    If the women want to be part of the system then get ready to be a fighter and work hard to achieve your political goals and be ready to do it against men or with along with men because the game always was and remains so a system and an entity that men created…not women.
    But always bear in mind it was not women who created and sustained political systems.
    There should be no surprise to anyone that politics are controlled by men as it was men that created the whole entity…not women… many men still feel to today that it is mans game and men should be in control of the game they created.
    That is their prerogative to think as such.

    Anyhow there are far too many examples to list concerning ( the way it is) because it was created by men…not women and that is the main reason it is the way it is.


    • Wow. Thanks so much for taking the time to lay out your thoughts. You’ve properly given men their due, which is rarely given.

      Here’s a comment I’ve posted at various sites:

      Here’s a view that has been missing for 40 years in all the tens of thousands of reports about women and work:

      Society consists of two “worlds”: the world of work (the productive world) and the world of children (the reproductive world). Obviously each world needs the other for its survival, so both are needed for civilization’s survival. Hence, the two worlds are equally important.

      Despite this equal importance, what do you suppose is the result thus far of the 40-year-old push for “gender equality”? It seems to be this: We are ending men’s dominance in the world of work (The Economist at “women are gradually taking over the workplace”) and, largely because “women are the ones who give birth,” preserving women’s dominance in the world of children. (Men have no reproductive rights except the right not to participate in sex. Imagine if women had no rights in the productive world except the right not to participate.) This does not bode well for the hope of a non-violent society.

      Too many feminist economists don’t seem to realize that men face as much sexism in the world of children as women do in the world of work. They also don’t see that the forces preventing men from being fully integrated into the world of children are the same forces that prevent women from being fully integrated into the world of work.

      Thus they don’t realize this: There will never be full equality in the world of work for women so long as there is not full equality in the world of children for men.

      See an example of how men are limited in the world of children: “In movies, dads not treated as equal to moms”

      Again, thanks much for your great comment.


  9. Clarence says:

    This essay, long as it is, fails for the simple fact that it asserts that the only (or perhaps main) problem with the sexual harassment laws is that they are in an environment where men have to do the vast majority (if not the entirety) of the initiating.

    I don’t think the sexual psychology of ‘group men’ and ‘group women’ is anywhere near malleable enough to significantly change that. In no society, anywhere, at any time, have women done most of the initiating. There’s no doubt they can do SOME of it and I’m all for encouraging it, but for the most part women are not as sexually attracted to men they have to ask out as men who take initiative. Exceptions exist of course.

    But the real problem is that you fail to take on sexual harassment for what it is:
    Giving all the power in the workplace (esp. sexual power) to the most easily offended and those most ready (not necessarily the same person at all) to abuse such power.

    Of course It also allows women at a workplace to ‘police’ the men in their environment as you do point out that attractive men often get away with behavior an unattractive man (or even a ‘normally attractive’ male) could not.

    But I think the real problem with current sexual harassment law is that it is too broad and too attuned only to the perspectives of one sex.

    One should probably ban and punish things like repeated unasked for (when one has made ones lack of interest clear)propositions, any second degree or first degree assaults of a sexual nature (regular physical assault can be handled with the already extant laws) and esp any ‘quid pro quo’ requirements.

    And that should be it. Currently you can be fired, sued, or disciplined for over-heard private jokes, bikini pictures of your wife on your desk, singular propositions, and remarks that can be construed as sexual of any type.
    The categories of sexual harassment are so broad you can drive a tank through them. And they encourage Orwellian and suppressive work environments where people have to act like robots concerning the opposite sex. And with our SCOTUS openly embracing an anti-male sexist standard (‘reasonable woman’ instead of ‘reasonable person’) there is no chance of this changing any time soon.


    • Thanks for your thoughtful comments. The only points I disagree with among your many good points:

      Re: “This essay, long as it is, fails for the simple fact that it asserts that the only (or perhaps main) problem with the sexual harassment laws is that they are in an environment where men have to do the vast majority (if not the entirety) of the initiating.”

      I’m not sure I know how to respond to this. Are you talking about the work environment? Because the laws do pertain only to this environment, where “men have to do the vast majority (if not the entirety) of the initiating.” Exactly my point: why is it that men must do most of the initiating that puts them alone at risk? That’s precisely why I call for the equality I detail.

      Re: “I don’t think the sexual psychology of ‘group men’ and ‘group women’ is anywhere near malleable enough to significantly change that.”

      That’s true as long as no one raises the sexes’ consciousness about it. The vast majority of both sexes see no problem with the male-initiates rule until you point it out to them. Then they start making a connection between the rule and sexual harassment. Again, this is exactly why I wrote commentary.

      Re: “for the most part women are not as sexually attracted to men they have to ask out as men who take initiative.”

      I don’t think it’s that a woman is less sexually attracted to a man she “has to ask out,” as it is her upbringing makes her feel more valued by being asked out. To her, “having to ask a man” is degrading — so why is it not degrading to men? Answer: sometimes men do feel degraded when they are rejected. If the sexes equally took initiatives, neither would feel degraded and both would feel less pain when rejected. Which, again, is exactly why I wrote the commentary

      I would urge you to think about all this a little more deeply.

      Re: “But the real problem is that you fail to take on sexual harassment for what it is: Giving all the power in the workplace (esp. sexual power) to the most easily offended and those most ready (not necessarily the same person at all) to abuse such power.”

      Maybe I didn’t address this as directly as you’d like (and I appreciate your making the point because it is in fact very important). But I believe it is a theme that emerges in readers’ minds as they get deeper into the commentary. Or maybe not!

      Re: “One should probably ban and punish things like repeated unasked for (when one has made ones lack of interest clear) propositions….”

      They are punished. I very extensively addressed the reasons for repeated requests.

      Re: all your other comments: Good job!!

      Thanks so much for taking the time to give your thought to me and my readers.


  10. Clarence says:

    I’m claiming sexual behavior is based on evolutionary biology and thus most women’s character traits do not include a strong predilection for taking the sexual initiative. I could refer you to regular psychological studies , studies from the field of evolutionary psychology, Baumeister’s work, or I could do what I just did: point out that no culture in history has ever had women doing most of the sexual and relational initiating, or heck, anything close to half.

    I’m not saying we can’t increase it somewhat because there ARE aspects of culture (but culture is always constrained by biology) that act to suppress sexual assertiveness in women, but it’s a pipe dream to think it will ever be 50- 50 or heck, probably anything close. I think it could be a much better world if we could get it to 75/25, but I fear anything more than that is impossible. After all, it IS much easier for a woman to ‘take the lead’ these days than in the Victorian era (and if its shameful no one need know esp if you live in a big, anonymous city or do it over the web) but while I dare say that women do initiate more than in the Victorian era, there is hardly an epidemic amount of initiation.

    Anyway, this is a bit off-topic from the sexual harassment laws, which are sexually discriminatory on the face of them because of the before-mentioned standard.


  11. Jack Strawb says:

    Where in this is the acknowledgment that most studies show women no less prone to harassing, stalking, and abusing men, as the reverse? In that sense the article strikes me as fundamentally dishonest.
    “Women more likely to be perpetrators of abuse as well as victims

    Published: July 13 2006 Category:Education, Family, Gender, Law, Research

    “GAINESVILLE, Fla. — Women are more likely than men to stalk, attack and psychologically abuse their partners, according to a University of Florida study that finds college women have a new view of the dating scene.

    “We’re seeing women in relationships acting differently nowadays than we have in the past,” said Angela Gover, a UF criminologist who led the research. “The nature of criminality has been changing for females, and this change is reflected in intimate relationships as well.” “


    • Jack, thanks for taking time to respond.

      While I don’t link to studies of women’s harassment of men, I do give examples of women’s harassment being overlooked by the media. I also point out that women harass men economically.

      You’re quite right to point this out.


  12. eljffelfeflkje says:

    One request for a date by a coworker wouldn’t be considered sexual harassment. It’d be harassment if he kept on her about it or if he retaliated against her for turning him down.


    • Thanks for commenting!

      Re: “One request for a date by a coworker wouldn’t be considered sexual harassment.”

      Ordinarily, I believe that’s true. But one of working women’s complaints, as I point out, is that sexual harassment laws and policies have made men too skittish to ask even once. Women looking for relationships in the workplace are more difficult to find — often unless the woman approaches the man first, thus making her interest clear.

      Re: “It’d be harassment if he kept on her about it….”

      Yes, I say that many times, I think, in the lengthy commentary.


  13. Wally Konstanty says:

    I’ve been interested in the ‘logic’ of quota feminists who demand equal representation in politics, and upper management etc. It’s curious that they ignore equal representation in areas such as
    long-haul trucking, oil-rig work, roofing, ocean fishing, hazmet diving, bomb disposal, welding, auto mechanic, timber work, engine room work, carpenters,crane operating, etc, etc. I call these women ‘pick-and-choose’ feminists because they don’t really want ‘real equality’ but only that which favors them. There is a reason why men are 94 percent of all job related deaths. This ‘death-gap’ is completely ignored by misandrist fems who only see issues narrowly.


    • Wally, well put. I like your list of male-only jobs. Either feminists aren’t complaining about the low female-representation, or the media aren’t covering their complaints. I agree: I think it’s the former.

      As I say often: Remember, “feminists” are men as well as women, and tons of everyday women want no part of feminism as exhibited by many leading feminists.


  14. Bob says:

    “Nor have we really said that girls can and should initiate first dates instead of just indicating that they’re interested and waiting for the guy to ask.”

    Many men and 99% of women are too afraid of rejection to have the balls to make the first move…. that’s why men have testosterone, so they are pushed to make the first move…. Don’t try to re-engineer genetics…. men are men and women are women…. the new age 90s, equality for all are long gone….


    • Thanks for the comment.

      Re: “Many men and 99% of women are too afraid of rejection to have the balls to make the first move…. that’s why men have testosterone, so they are pushed to make the first move”

      No, that’s why many men drink to dull the fear and impact of rejection.

      Not trying to “engineer” anything. I leave everything to individual choice. I merely point out where I think the gender alienation — and much of sexual assault — come from.


  15. George says:

    “Both sexes make and both benefit from and are hurt by the rules both make.”

    White people make all the rules, be it male or female…so when an Asian male asks a white female out on a date and is persistent she could take it to HR and complain about sexual harrassment, because she may be a racist or simply may not like the Asian guy. He may be the only Asian guy in the organization and the white males most likely will not support him.


    • George, thanks for the comment. You gave a good example of the kind of gender-alienating possibilities created by the male-initiates “rule.” As for as white guys most likely not supporting him, I don’t know about that. You said it in a way that indicates you haven’t actually experienced this but suspect it would happen. I’m pretty sure that no one in my organization ( would withhold support from any man regardless of his race. But I do think most men tend to be apathetic about these things, though judging by comments I’ve seen over the years, that is changing pretty fast.


  16. Anderson N. Nunes says:

    Reblogged this on Nexo de Sobriedade.


  17. Why don’t laws like these below apply to VAWA and why isn’t VAWA written as VAPA (P= “persons”?). I was falsely accused (proven to be false) by Pam Geldart, yet despite costing the state tens of thousands from a proven false 911 call, responding officer’s, processing, overnight mandated “zero tolerance” one night incarceration, 6 week’s medical urine analysis, countless hours and private attorney time, state’s attorney’s review, a judge’s time, and the courts media recording/audio and stenography time, including processing, fees, paperwork, records keeping…. two months later to find an absolute lie, absolute proof of the lie, and proof the lie was a malicious, vindictive retaliatory lie… the false accuser simply gets a verbal reprimand, walks away, not even a fine? As the falsely accused, enduring the stress, the arrest, the system not caring whatsoever about the truth until two months later, the humiliation, the career damage, reputation damage, a permanent online mugshot from multiple extortionist websites EACH demanding $400 to take the image down (,,,, etc., EACH claiming all the while that they put mugshots up there to “warn neighbors and family” – despite that for large sums of money they take them down – how does that make anyone safe – so the wealthy can afford to “save their reputation online” but the poor cannot?), and in the end, much like this Virginia false rape allegation, the courts issue vanilla statements rather than an “INNOCENT” document… they provide a piece of paper with “NO INFO” written on it, which they claim is not an exoneration, but enough to drop one’s case… that’s it… that’s all you get for having been dragged through the ringer… like the police department’s in Florida… Virginia’s “suspended case” leaves the accused still in public opinion limbo … where is the “absolute exoneration”? Why isn’t the false accuser held to a standard of integrity? How come political correctness takes precedent over facts. The only remedy for the falsely accused, is civil court. And to the average citizen, would cost $5,000 to $30,000 to contract a lawyer, to sue an accuser, who might like Jackie herself, be unable ever to pay out any punitive, financial reward… rendering the civil process untenable. Even worse, after the fact the accused MUST describe what actually happened in order to explain to future employers, relatives, etc., but by laws that FORBID the falsely accused from mentioning the name of the false accuser? Get this: the name of the falsely accused is boldly printed on ALL THE PAPERWORK, shows up in ALL the legal computer files, on ALL mugshot websites appearing page one SEO Google, Bing, Yahoo when you type in the name of the falsely accused. .. yet the false accuser’s name? NOT MENTIONED ANYWHERE, crossed out of ALL paperwork, blanked out/silenced on ALL copies of recording’s of the 911 call, hidden from ALL views in the press, not permitted to be listed at ALL, and if the falsely accused does list the false accuser’s name, especially online as I just did here in this comment, the falsely accused (despite proven lies against him) remains COMPLETELY at risk of being charged with a civil “cyberstalking” restraint order … yep. The false accuser gets a COMPLETE FREE RIDE over and over again at the taxpayer’s FULL expense. The falsely accused pays thousands and thousands in defense, loses their reputation, loses hundreds of thousands of potential current and future career income, the damage is extraordinary, and yet here we have the falsely accused, because the false accuser faces no penalty, has their name stricken from all legal documents and media, and has a “civil cyberstalking” law they can invoke for mentioning their name as the false accuser, the falsely accused CANNOT EVER VINDICATE THEMSELVES (even when there exists multiple documents, audio and video PROVING INNOCENCE from the location and time of the actual falsely claimed event). The U.S. is failing it’s citizens. The falsely accused, the innocent, now by law are not permitted to mention the name of a false accuser without violating “new cyberstalking laws”… all of which harbor themselves under a GENDER SPECIFIC FEDERAL LEGISLATION… with a blatant “V” written in it …. it should be Violence Against “Persons” Act…. but it’s not. How many “men’s shelters” are in the U.S. today? What HR department wants now to deal with someone who has a mugshot online? Will they really care if the person was falsely arrested? Really? Just the arrest and the dozens of scam online mugshot websites posting a Googled by persons name to page one result, just the arrest then alone is enough to offer the public a chance to “publicly condemn” and destroy the career of the falsely accused for LIFE – it’s not about facts – but perceptions. Our legal system is falling apart, good people’s lives, their careers, their children’s support… are being absolutely devastated by this skewed LEGALLY ACCEPTED and often encouraged (by lawyers) falsified gender-based, slanderous false witness.(as a tool in custody disputes, divorce, etc.) Why not? There exists no reason for a false accuser to fear ANY consequence for wicked lies… Consider this…. the concept of “He’s a Witch!” is rampant now in America’s public media, continued commentary and sadly, systemic now in our own courts – in fact – processing false allegations is a huge financial gain for most jurisdictions (receiving increased federal funds for increases in arrests) and state’s attorney’s look great when they spend that money on larger shelters and advertise their higher arrest numbers to a voting public… “tough on crime” and “zero tolerance” … and everyone thumps their chest, “be happy you got ‘NO INFO’ and were cleared, hey, it just proves the system worked”… but look at UVA, the Greek system, the President, Rolling Stone… the system is NOT working. Not at all. I encourage anyone to view this 20/20 expose posted at this website here:


  18. Despite the fact they don’t apply… these laws (copied just below) SHOULD apply to VAWA (which should have a “P” for “Persons” instead of the “W”.)
    The 2014 Florida Statutes
    Title XLVI
    Chapter 837
    View Entire Chapter
    837.05 False reports to law enforcement authorities.—(1)(a) Except
as provided in paragraph (b) or subsection (2), a person who knowingly 
gives false information to a law enforcement officer concerning the 
alleged commission of any crime, commits a misdemeanor of the first 
degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
(b)  A person who commits a violation of paragraph (a) commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084, if the person has previously been convicted of a violation of paragraph (a) and subparagraph 1. or subparagraph 2. applies:
1. The
information the person gave to the law enforcement officer was 
communicated orally and the officer’s account of that information is 
corroborated by:
a. An audio recording or audio recording in a video of that information;
b. A written or recorded statement made by the person who gave that information; or
c. Another person who was present when that person gave that information to the officer and heard that information.
2. The information the person gave to the law enforcement officer was communicated in writing.
(2) A
person who knowingly gives false information to a law enforcement 
officer concerning the alleged commission of a capital felony, commits a
felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
History.—s. 57, ch. 74-383; s. 34, ch. 75-298; s. 206, ch. 91-224; s. 5, ch. 97-90; s. 1, ch. 2013-117.


  19. Kyle McKenna says:

    Quoted above: “If women say no, and you take them at their word, and that turns out to not be what they want (because they were playing some game or whatever) then their limited dating success will discourage them from playing that game anymore, and encourage them to be more frank about their needs.”

    Nonsense. They simply capitulate to a man who persists. Simples, as the Brits say.


  20. Just a Little Embarassed says:

    I am a 14 year old female, with a passion for rights of anyone and everyone. I have a deep interest in entering an engineering field, and this blog post elicits a great deal of worry for me. If I’m to be participating in a mostly male environment, I don’t want to be an object of concern. As a (hopefully) respectful and decent person, I would hope that I’d never overreact or harm someone else’s career, but I also have a fear of being pushed beyond my comfort zone. Even though I’m still many years away from entering the workplace, I am simply afraid to be in a situation that I can’t understand both sides of. The concept of sexuality is one that I am just beginning to understand, and yet it feels like there is so much danger of hurting someone else that the risk is not worth it. The concept of pursuing versus being pursued is honestly confusing. Although I read many novels with romantic themes, I always feel some sort of confusion over why the female lead can’t be bothered to just walk over and speak her mind. And yet, I understand. The beginning of any relationship is walking in blind, with no clue as to how the person might react, and exposing your guts (emotionally), giving someone else the power to hurt you. So please, any advice?


    • You are my youngest commenter! Thanks so much for taking the time to write (and you write very well). I don’t really give advice, since I am not a psychologist. To me, you seem very mature for your age, so I think you will grow up with a level head on your shoulders. You’ll learn that taking the risk of being hurt is a natural part of life. One can diminish hurt by understanding others, as you seem highly capable of doing.

      Re: “The beginning of any relationship is walking in blind, with no clue as to how the person might react, and exposing your guts (emotionally), giving someone else the power to hurt you.”

      That’s quite a profound statement for a 14-year-old. It describes the “male” role in male-female meet-ups.

      And think of this: “giving someone the power to hurt you.”

      No one has the power to hurt us unless we give them that power. Power is given, not taken. And no one does anything without a pay-off.

      If you think for many years about those last two sentences, you will be one of the most mature people on earth!

      Don’t rush yourself. Enjoy your childhood. At your age, you can expect to live to 100. Enjoy life!


  21. Joe Hardin says:

    The definition of sexual harrassment is simple: Any romantic gesture, comment, or overture to a woman from a man that the woman does not find immediately attractive.

    The persistence thing is interesting too. Many, especially young, women first go on looks, height, and build in deciding whether someone is attractive. But what they truly find attractive for a relationship is a personality that makes them laugh and feel secure. It sometimes takes persistence to get past the facade. Women should really accept more dates than they do.

    I don’t play those games anymore. I am very direct with my dates. It is now easy to get women to accept a date because I am rich, so I just need to figure out who I like. On a first date that is going well, I will usually ask directly, “Shall we find a hotel?” If there isn’t time, my followup is always, “Next time, then” and if I have done my filtering and judged her interest correctly, she will always agree and feel relieved that she does not have to guess. Many times I have been complimented that I have such direct communication; they appreciate it.

    My college age girlfriend (I am quite a bit older) describes herself as a “feminist”, but she loves flowers, chocolates, physical closeness and sex and is quite passive about it. She first comes across as a bit edgy, but as soon as she is the slightest bit aroused, she is “do what you want with me.” She has bought into the feminist bs mentally, but emotionally she wants a man to lead, protect her, and be chivalrous.


  22. Keryl says:

    With your permission, I’m going to suggest an idea from ‘left field’ (non-political meaning, please) which is that the main problem with ‘women’s initiative’ is not that it does not exist but that the culture and framework which long managed women’s sexual advances no longer exists.
    What? (I hear eyebrows go up… deservedly.)

    In earlier cultures the advances of young women towards eligable young men were made on her behalf by… her is the detail… OTHER WOMEN. Usually mothers and aunts, but sometimes members of the wider community. The ‘matchmakers’ of the community could play the equalizing factor by asking covertly something like ‘Mary, would your son John be a good match for Susan’s daughter Alice?’ After a time, Mary would ask John, who would answer, and the answer would make the way though the grapevine until eventually Susan would suggest to Alice that sit by John at some barn dance or corn husking. John wouldn’t have to risk rejection – as Alice would not have to risk immodesty – as until the news got back nothing would be official. Then – if they were both attracted – they could of course share a mutual complaint about ‘meddling kinfolk’.

    On of the problems is that in the high-stakes and short-term-reward environment of the modern world, a woman has very little valid reason to trust another woman’s ‘good will’ in this matter. Consider how often ‘She told a co-worker’ is part of the complaint process. The process is traditional – but instead of the message passing on, the information is hoarded until the HR people come calling.

    (Just a suggestion – but do think about it.)


    • Good comment, Keryl. I like your historical take and how you compare the old with the new. You made a very good observation about the complaint process: “She told a co-worker” is often part of the process.


  23. Heather says:

    I read your entire post and thoroughly thought it was interesting and thought provoking! I have always identified as a feminist but I have never been offended by other people’s points of view. I actually agree with many points you make. Overall, really great read!


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